I love when people get out of Libre software bigotry and push for the better, allowing their peers not to be perfect.

Projects such as @nextcloud and @wallabag or @matrix provide iOS versions of their apps, and I think it does more for freeing users than bashing them about using a non-free system

Libre software is important, but it is a mean to free people, not an end in itself

@thibaultamartin @nextcloud @wallabag @matrix Something to consider though: to provide apps for Apple or Google for a thing, I would be required to sign a contract to get the dev environment. So there is also a real entitlement to people saying "YUNo support my OS? Bigot!". It's not bigotry for me to reject a corporate yoke.

@cathal This argument makes perfect sense and I definitely agree with you.

My whole point is about balance: sometimes, the very principle you care about can drive you away from what you meant when you adhered to it. Sometime it's worth a fight.

@thibaultamartin This is true. But even for systems where licensing and SDKs don't figure, I think there is room for both approaches: paths of compatibility, and "platform exclusives". For example, look what happened with Docker: it became so crucial to dev work, but relied utterly on Linux APIs, that Windows did the unthinkable and embedded Linux. Potentially an even bigger win for FOSS exposure than if Docker had supported Windows somehow from day 1.

@thibaultamartin @cathal When this happens (that the very principle you care about drives you away) it's just that we have found a new issue to tackle. For some it's even a matter of congruency. If I push for FOSS, why would I accept a platform that rejects it? What can be done to fix this? Some of the apps are communicarion apps so the need for building a network effect is even greater than one that isn't. Calling this bigotry is not fair.

@cathal @thibaultamartin
I'd believe this is true of Apple (I also assume you'd have to buy a Mac computer but maybe they changed that) but I'm pretty sure the Android SDK is open-source and it's at least possible to avoid any specifically Google services or the Play Store and go sideload-only

@sl2c @thibaultamartin I looked again to confirm, this morning, and I'm pleased to report that I was mistaken:
I remembered that Replicant's SDK had been discontinued but I didn't know there was a successor. So it may be possible to develop for Android for sideloading or F-Droid without signing anything with Google or having a Google account.
Apple of course don't permit sideloading or third party stores, and I think the whole Apple homebrew thing is dead by now, so..

@thibaultamartin @nextcloud @wallabag @matrix Couldn't agree more. This is part of why I personally find the dual boot shaming I see a lot of in Linux culture pretty repugnant.

@thibaultamartin “libre bigotery”‽ Did you consider that others can treat proprietary platforms (frequent abusers and bullies) to be *unethical*?
In your mind a vegetarian restaurant owners are a ‘vegetarian bigots’ cuz they don’t serve meat to make meat eaters feel welcome?

Of course some vegetarian restaurants can create a bridge and serve meat but calling pure vegetarian restaurants bigots cuz they choose to not participate in unethical practices is an entitled and asshole way of thinking.


My issue is usually when iOS; MacOS; and Windows users want to call their reepective choices private and secure. I literally had someone recently try to argue that iOS and MacOS were a good choice for privacy and security because Apple said so. If someone wants to use non free options by all means do so but at least admit what they are and what their faults are.

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