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As unbearably cringe as the hunt for a "leftist Joe Rogan" is, it is (to use a shopworn phrase), "directionally correct." Democrats suck at getting their message out, and that exacts a high electoral cost.
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If you'd like an essay-formatted version of this thread to read or share, here's a link to it on pluralistic.net, my surveillance-free, ad-free, tracker-free blog:
https://pluralistic.net/2024/12/12/the-view-from-somewhere/#abolish-rogan
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@pluralistic as I understand it, 'the Dems' look to the #Billionaire #Kleptocrat class for their funding, and he who pays the piper calls the tune. Never trust any political party which accepts any donation that the poorest voter could not afford to pay.
@pluralistic I don't think there are any leftist commercial media in the UK. The Mirror is pro-Labour, yes, but #Labour ceased to be 'left' in any meaningful sense when Blair rewrote #ClauseIV. #Starmer's modern Labour party is technocratic neoliberal, which places it firmly on the right.
“leftist Joe Rogan” seems less cringe and more impossible depending on your perspective:
if by “Joe Rogan” you mean an irresponsible, dangerous ideologue peddling disinformation that endangers, kills, and radicalizes people - it’s pretty hard to see how any of that is compatible with the values I understand to underpin the left;
if by “Joe Rogan” you mean a ‘successful entrepreneurial podcaster’ with a *huge* following - then that’s part of the problem, right there.
The Democrats' message these days is "uhhh we're not as terrible as Trump".
Biden endorsed and furthered Trump's original tariffs, extended Trump's previous EO's, and basically did a 'softer version of Trump'. The China hate still reigns, with Tiktok ban still happening any day now. Palestine is still an ongoing genocide, paid for by US weaponry.
And Harris shows up last minute and goes "lol nothing is different with me".
The leftists I know (myself included) look at the democratic party as elitist sycophants that will actively harm real positive change for the masses. Not only that, but "Democrats" are some of the most undemocratic in their organization and structure.
First-passed-the-post voting means we're basically stuck with them. Or, with Republicans winning, just the worse option.
Glad I don't have children. I wouldn't want to raise them in this world.
Biden’s original “Nothing will fundamentally change.” and his current “This will be the most peaceful transition ever.”
100% this. Nothing will change, because the neoliberal types like where they are.
They'll get in office, raise taxes on the 50-99%, and transfer some of that to the 0-50% , while not touching the top 1%. ever.
And about the transition.... I say that Harris (VP) should NOT endorse the vote on January 6th. That was trump's play last time. Play tit-for-tat and make them find out. But, no way that ever happening.
@crankylinuxuser @pluralistic Democrats can be bullied into doing the right thing, Republicans can't
This also means that Democrats can be bullied into doing the wrong things, it's a competitive landscape
@RandomDamage @crankylinuxuser @pluralistic You don’t actually have to bully Democrats into doing the wrong things. You can just tell them that if they do the wrong things, then the Republicans will like them.
This is, of course, not true, but it works nonetheless.
@angusm @RandomDamage @crankylinuxuser @pluralistic Proving, of course, that everything that goes wrong is the fault of Democrats.
@jhavok @angusm @crankylinuxuser @pluralistic nah, just showing why almost half of Americans don't bother voting.
It's really hard to convince people to choose between the Tin Man and the Cowardly Lion
@RandomDamage @angusm @crankylinuxuser @pluralistic Oh look, it's "both sides are the same" the standard "why bother voting" narrative so beloved of crooked politicians.
@jhavok @RandomDamage @angusm @pluralistic
In the case of recent Democrats vs Fascists, well the Democrats have taken the anti-Trump Republican role. And the fash are fash.
And no, being in a Republican supermajority state, my leftist vote does not matter at all.
I'll still vote, for the infinitesimal chance that my vote actually does matter. But statistically speaking, it doesn't. But I do work elsewhere that is much more impactful than 5 minutes every 2 years.
@crankylinuxuser @RandomDamage @angusm @pluralistic Taylor is discouraging people from voting. Perhaps he's doing it innocently because he's been propagandized, but the effect is the same. The two sides are not the same, even if one side is not as far left as you'd like.
@RandomDamage @crankylinuxuser @angusm @pluralistic Bummed at getting outed?
@jhavok @crankylinuxuser @angusm @pluralistic you saw it, now I can block you for having no reading comprehension
@jhavok @RandomDamage @angusm @pluralistic
Jimmy havok you remind me of the sort of people I see (and avoid) on Facebook, of people with low intelligence making stupid comments to get a rise out of people. It's terrible there, and it's terrible here.
Maybe you're a troll in training. Or perhaps this is what you are like. Don't know; don't care.
Either way, good riddance.
@crankylinuxuser @jhavok @angusm @pluralistic Actually, your vote *does* matter, because no state is Republican supermajority at the individual level.
@crankylinuxuser @pluralistic and the Republican Party needs to go away, and the only way to make that happen is with epic losses that push their supporters elsewhere, and the Democrats to the Left
Most Democrats are OK with moving Left, but they are afraid to lead the way
@RandomDamage @crankylinuxuser @pluralistic the Democrats are the pawl in the Republican Overton ratchet.
@crankylinuxuser @pluralistic "Not only that, but "Democrats" are some of the most undemocratic in their organization and structure. "
I keep hearing this and it confuses the shit out of me. Aren't most political parties in most countries 100% undemocratic? Frankly the idea of primaries baffles me and I can only understand it in light of the two-party system - and neither of the major parties is responsible for inventing FPTP, as it's enshrined in the Constitution.
It's crazy, but here's some things of recent note that I say the Democratic party is undemocratic:
- Superdelagates (rich person votes)
- 2015 Hillary Clinton vs Bernie Sanders debacle
- Non-nomination of Harris for 2024
And this is a long form account from someone who turned anarchist after volunteering for the Nevada state Democratic party. https://post-goldfish.ghost.io/i-became-an-anarchist-while-working-for-the-nevada-state-democratic-party/
"Having a physical separation (of Democratic HQ professionals), by around a 15-minute drive, is a perfect metaphor for how the professional class of the Democratic Party sees themselves compared to the ordinary people of the field staff. We weren’t let in on any strategy discussions, we weren’t told any inside information (because they were certain we’d leak it), we weren’t even allowed to physically be around them."
@crankylinuxuser @prestontumber @pluralistic Much like the Bible made me an atheist, Democrats made me an anarchist. I was an Indiana state delegate in 08, and was invited to the White House by the Obama administration in 2011. Setting up close how politics actually works opened my eyes.
@crankylinuxuser @prestontumber @pluralistic
Thank you for sharing this. I think it makes a lot of really great (and sometimes infuriating) points.
I only want to add this idea: Electioneering is a billion dollar industry that works best when people are actively engaged with their hearts and wallets, and people will engage the hardest when they're fearful of something. I don't think the political division of America happened on accident, i think it is intentionally fostered for profit and political control.
@RnDanger @crankylinuxuser @pluralistic I don't think conspiracy theories are the right way to handle the complexity of the world - and if any group was actually both competent enough and powerful enough to coordinate such a thing for their own ends, frankly, they deserve to rule, as we obviously can't stop them.
@prestontumber @crankylinuxuser @pluralistic
Market forces are conspiratorial sometimes
@RnDanger @crankylinuxuser @pluralistic Sure, and conspiracy theories are a well-documented defect in human reasoning and attempts to deal with the complexity of the world.
@prestontumber @crankylinuxuser @pluralistic
Good thing we have capitalism, lol
@RnDanger @crankylinuxuser @pluralistic I wonder how reality-based your definition of that word is.
@prestontumber @crankylinuxuser @pluralistic
Sorry for sarcasm. It assumed too much here.
I believe capitalism has real and often terrible effects, and its operating principles are generally unsound.
I feel like every complaint you've lodged against conspiracy mindedness would apply just as well to capitalism mindedness.
@RnDanger @crankylinuxuser @pluralistic What is "capitalism mindedness"? I know lots of people who "believe in capitalism" in the sense that they think it's good and also believe in conspiracy theories (if that's what you mean?)
I don't think they're all that contradictory. Arguably, the precarity it creates in the absence of a robust welfare state would create more of a reason to want to believe in conspiratorial forces.
@prestontumber @crankylinuxuser @pluralistic
"Arguably, the precarity it creates in the absence of a robust welfare state would create more of a reason to want to believe in conspiratorial forces."
This is a great observation i hadn't noticed before. I think the evidence bears it out.
@prestontumber @crankylinuxuser @pluralistic
Capital-mindedness:
I think capitalism induces a "defect in human reasoning and attempts to deal with the complexity of the world." It frequently reduces problems to a number with no regard for a complicated reality.
@crankylinuxuser @pluralistic Ok, I see my confusion - it was the phrasing "the most undemocratic in their organization and structure". I thought you were making a comparison, and since most political parties worldwide are way less internally democratic than the Democrats AFAIK, couldn't follow your point.
@crankylinuxuser @pluralistic The Democratic Party is not democratic and the Republican Party is not republican.
@crankylinuxuser @pluralistic FPTP is not the only reason. Look at Russia as example: instead FPTP there is two-round system except on municipal elections, yet Pu and UR oligarchs are in power. I think biggest problem is having one Great Leader. And it's not about centralization, having Great Leader shifts attention from systems to flashy personalities.
And one person can't meaningfully manage coutry as big as Russia or as little as USA.
@uis @crankylinuxuser @pluralistic Strong Presidents are definitely an authoritarian danger point. I think we should minimize the powers of those who hold office by right, no matter what that right is. You can get away with a lot of stuff that would seem crazy centralized in an American context if you require a Prime Minister to cobble together a majority to approve it.